Material settings for Texture2?

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:58 pm

After Kj showed how texture2 can be used to effect texture(1) (see; viewtopic.php?t=493&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 ) I have been testing some ideas for using this,. however it is a bit limited since the texture alignment values are for texture(1) only. Could we add to the material component;

TextureScale2
TextureX2
TextureY2
TextureRotate2
TextureWrapMode2

not sure if settings for texture3 would be usefull as well, probably for some stuff,. .
If this makes the Material component to too confusing,. perhaps brake it down into Material, and MaterialExtra or some such.

Also; I just found a bug testing this (latest beta, as always

),. load the attached, then change Texture(1) on the m_one to 'None' notice that this effects m_two!

Post by **Kjell** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:22 pm

Hi jph,

This is limitation I've ran into several times as well .. and is somewhat of a design flaw. However, most of the parameters you mention can be easily accessed and altered using a Shader .. apart from Rotate and especially WrapMode ( texture 2 & 3 always use Mirror ).

A solution could be to allow properties to be added to certain components ( Unity does exactly this ). So when you'd need 16 textures on one Material instead of 3, you could add 13 Texture Properties to the Material ( in a similar fashion to ModelStates for example ). This is not a easy task to implement though .. so I guess it's better to just work around it for now.

For example ( texture 1 scrolling horizontal, 2 vertical )

Code: Select all

ZZDC<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?>
<Model Name="Model">
  <Definitions>
    <Bitmap Name="One">
      <Producers>
        <BitmapPixels NOfPoints="128" RandomSeed="0"/>
      </Producers>
    </Bitmap>
    <Bitmap Name="Two">
      <Producers>
        <BitmapCells RandomSeed="0" BorderPixels="0" PointCount="64"/>
      </Producers>
    </Bitmap>
    <Shader Name="Shader" UpdateVarsOnEachUse="255">
      <VertexShaderSource>
<![CDATA[//

uniform float time;

//

void main()
{
  gl_TexCoord[0] = gl_MultiTexCoord0;
  gl_TexCoord[0][0] += time;
 
  gl_TexCoord[1] = gl_MultiTexCoord0;
  gl_TexCoord[1][1] += time;
 
  gl_Position = gl_ModelViewProjectionMatrix * gl_Vertex;
}]]>
      </VertexShaderSource>
      <FragmentShaderSource>
<![CDATA[//

uniform sampler2D tex1;
uniform sampler2D tex2;

//

void main()
{
  gl_FragColor = texture2D(tex1, gl_TexCoord[0].xy)+
                 texture2D(tex2, gl_TexCoord[1].xy);
}]]>
      </FragmentShaderSource>
      <UniformVariables>
        <ShaderVariable Name="Time" VariableName="time" Value="0.42"/>
      </UniformVariables>
    </Shader>
    <Material Name="Material" Texture="One" Texture2="Two" Shader="Shader"/>
  </Definitions>
  <OnRender>
    <ZExpression>
      <Expression>
<![CDATA[//

Time.Value += 0.005;]]>
      </Expression>
    </ZExpression>
    <UseMaterial Material="Material"/>
    <RenderSprite/>
  </OnRender>
</Model>

K

Post by **VilleK** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:31 am

The current implementation is not adequate for multiple textures. We should have something like this:

Material
-- Textures
--- MaterialTexture Texture=Bitmap1 TextureX=0.5 ...
--- MaterialTexture Texture=Bitmap2 TextureX=0.75 ...

All the texture-related properties from Material are moved into a new MaterialTexture component which can be added as many as needed into a new property-list Textures on Material. It doesn't have to break compatibility with old zgeproj-files because code can be added that automatically translates to the new properties.

I believe this can be done with reasonable effort. What do you think, is it worth an attempt? And is the design sufficient?

Post by **Kjell** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:01 pm

Hej Ville,

Combining all texture-related properties in one Component is even better yes. And so is going all the way by removing all texture-related properties from the current Material Component, and "fixing" backwards compatibility by implementing a converter in the Editor .. which would be a first right?

So .. depends a little on how much effort ( your guess is probably best ), but it sounds good. Then I can finally stop splitting meshes / combining textures unnecessarily

K

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:42 pm

Yes that does sound like a fine solution, often textures are not even used (flat, wire, etc) and the base material will have that covered,. and multi-texturing will be useage based and scalable,. often just one, some times more,. . I like it.

Possibly also an opportunity to add more of the standard gl lighting stuff to the base material;

GL_AMBIENT
GL_DIFFUSE (currently color?)
GL_SPECULAR
GL_EMISSION
GL_SHININESS

http://www.falloutsoftware.com/tutorials/gl/gl8.htm

if possible,. ? or is this stuff all being droped from gl in favour of straight shaders??

kattle87 · Post by **kattle87** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:15 pm

it is possible, but they ARE dropping it...
Expecially if we were going to move to OpenGL ES 2.0, it would be a pain to port that stuff without breaking compatibility! Those mad people completely removed the fixed pipeline... what the hell was wrong with that????

Post by **Kjell** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:28 pm

Hi Francesco,

OpenGL ES would have to be a fork or a separate ( rendering ) mode. Standard OpenGL is the preferred platform for desktop deployment.

By the way, have you tried any Delphi for ARM ( Pandora ) development already?

K

kattle87 · Post by **kattle87** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:45 pm

:S don't speak about the pandora... it's still in production '-.-

The nice thing is that one of my friends is the one that is going to resell the pandoras in Italy... he is waiting too, of course

OpenGL ES could be good for PS3... but I have to admit that is the only one usefull situation I can think about actually.

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:52 pm

current beta texture/material tests,. . nice

Post by **Kjell** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:33 pm

Hmm,

Everybody uses LibGCM on PS3 instead of OpenGL ES. Besides .. dev-kits don't come cheap.

K

kattle87 · Post by **kattle87** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:44 pm

linux works on PS3 to a certain extent... and uses OpenGL ES

That's the only feasible way for us to get something working on PS3 I guess... Provided that freepascal compiler works on PS3...

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:50 am

Yeah I have all but given up on the consoles,. too corporate for me anyway. I just don't like working with those structures,. greed machines. PCs are still the largest installed base anyhow,. . win/mac/linux is a large audiance!

Here is a test with shaders,. I added a poem I like,. it is a sufi poem written a couple hundred years ago, recently translated by Coleman Barks. I found this due to this song by TV On The Radio - Staring At The Sun,. .

look here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHrTOQ18yzU

the video captures some of the idea, with the waves of structure diverging and focusing, sweet stuff,. great tune too!

Post by **VilleK** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:26 pm

That's a very cool demo jph. I love how the patterns mix in a seemingly organic fashion and colors get increasingly intense as the poem progress.

How is it done? Multiple layers of geometry, each with a multi-textured shader?

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:09 pm

This is basicly a mix of Kjell's duel texture shader (above, I did not realise how easy it is to blend textures in a shader, more simple shader examples please!) with that simple 2d fog shader I posted in tipsN'tricks for the color fading,. it just uses the nifty mix function ( mix( genType, genType, float ) in this case it takes colors as vec4) to mix the colors based on the gl_Position.z. Then it just paintes that tube geometry for my old tube shooter,. layerd 3X,. each scaled, and with z rotation offset by some noise,. . so a bunch of techniques I been playing around with all mashed together.

I was trying to emulate some of what Minter is doing with that Neon back drop in GRR,. think I got enouph working to do some cool bits with this system

I need to work on my geometry skills some as I still have only a vague understanding of how the 3d Expression generation works,. 3d math is though,. and I am getting a bit deeper into the shaders,. but also lots in there to figure out too.

jph_wacheski · Post by **jph_wacheski** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:10 pm

This is basicly a mix of Kjell's duel texture shader (above, I did not realise how easy it is to blend textures in a shader, more simple shader examples please!) with that simple 2d fog shader I posted in tipsN'tricks for the color fading,. it just uses the nifty mix function ( mix( genType, genType, float ) in this case it takes colors as vec4) to mix the colors based on the gl_Position.z. Then it just paintes that tube geometry for my old tube shooter,. layerd 3X,. each scaled, and with z rotation offset by some noise,. . so a bunch of techniques I been playing around with all mashed together.

I was trying to emulate some of what Minter is doing with that Neon back drop in GRR,. think I got enouph working to do some cool bits with this system

I need to work on my geometry skills some as I still have only a vague understanding of how the 3d Expression generation works,. 3d math is though,. and I am getting a bit deeper into the shaders,. but also lots in there to figure out too.